Life outside Adventism

(This one’s a letter I wrote to two of my relatives present during that “discussion” i had with my Adventist friends back home I felt that I owe them an apology at the same time explain where I am at right now in terms of my relationship with God — something I wasn’t successful doing that time. I’m making it public because 1) I know some of my relatives are visiting this blog and 2) there might be some former Adventists that will read this and probably draw strenght from)

I pray that you had a great flight upon reading this letter. I’m writing you not just to wish you well but also to say sorry for having myself engaged in a theological debate with the Jaen Adventist brethren. It wasn’t my intention. It wasn’t my desire to argue with anyone simply because he does not share with my belief. I’m really sorry about it.

It is evident that I have turned away from the beliefs that I grew up with. I know you are disappointed with me. Rest assured, though, that even if I have left the Adventist church, I never turned my back on God and I have an exciting and dynamic relationship with Him.

When I mentioned during our discussion that I have restudied my beliefs in year 2000, I have no hidden agenda for doing so. I did not do it simply because I want to justify whatever desires I have that might contradict with the practices of the Adventist church. I still pay my tithes, in fact, sometimes more than 10% of my income because my giving to the Lord is not governed by any rules rather by my relationship with Him. I still worship God not just on a Sabbath day, but everyday of my life since I accepted Jesus as the ultimate Sabbath rest for my soul. I still don’t eat pork or any of those foods that you consider unclean, although I don’t consider eating or not eating of those foods will ever determine one’s salvation.

The only reason why I reviewed my belief system is to become like the Bereans (Acts 17:11). The Bereans did not simply listen to Apostle Paul and accept everything he preaches. They searched the scriptures themselves and check whether Paul was proclaiming the truth or not. And I believe that, if it’s my salvation and the salvation of my family is in line here, I ought to do what the Bereans did. I had to go back to the Bible and see for myself if the things that were taught me by the church is really correct or not. After several months of prayer and studying the Bible, I have come to a conclusion that I can no longer support the ideals of the church I loved.

After my decision to leave the church, a lot has changed. And I would like to share with you some:

1)My salvation has never been so secured as it is now. Right now, I am secured that even if I die at this very moment, I will meet Jesus in heaven. This is not spiritual arrogance because my salvation is not dependent on what I do but what on Jesus has done to save me. Jesus takes all the credit for my salvation, I have contributed absolutely nothing to it. Before, I was so afraid to die thinking that I may die without confessing all my sins — which in fact are many because all of us do sin everyday, and I will go to hell because of that. But now, God has shown me that all of my sins — past, present and future — has been forgiven when Jesus Christ died on the cross for me. I can now concentrate on my relationship with God and not on “trying to be holy”.

2)I have accepted a large majority of Christians as my brothers in Christ. Before, I used to “hate” those “Sunday keepers”. As I was taught inside the Adventist church, Catholics and Protestants alike will someday receive the mark of the beast for going to church on Sundays. But now, I realized that the only requirement to become a child of God is for one to accept Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior. If one has a real relationship with God, he’s been born of the Spirit irregardless of his denominational affiliation. I started associating with all these Christians and I discovered that there’s a lot more about Christianity than what I previously knew inside the Adventist denomination. I have seen great Christians of character that I have never seen before. I have seen passionate Christ-lovers that I have never thought there is such a kind. Eventually, my Christian perspective and spiritual family grew tremendously.

3)I have realized that the gospel is so wonderful. The gospel I knew before involved a lot of things — Sabbath keeping, tithing, a bunch of dos and dont’s. But now, I understand why people’s lives are changed by the simple gospel of salvation. It’s so easy that people find it too good to be true. What is this simple Gospel? God loves us so much that he wants us to have a relationship with him. But we, starting from our forefathers, are all sinners. We rebel against God. We sin everyday. And that’s a fact. James says, we break one command and we break all. In effect, everyday, we’re breaking all of the commandments – not just the Sabbath, but all. Paul, in Romans says the penalty of sin is death. And because we are all sinners, we deserve to die. Yet, God made a plan to rescue us. He sent Jesus to die on our behalf. All we need to do to be saved is to accept Jesus and what he has done on the cross. No amount of good works can save us, only the grace of God can (Eph. 2:8,9). Unfortunately, religions has distorted that simple gospel. They created rules and regulations that blocks us from appreciating the intensity of the grace of God. Religion is “man reaching for God” while the true essence of Christianity is “God reaching down to man”.

I am telling you this not to say that you are wrong and I am right. Not at all! I respect your beliefs and I love you and all my Adventist friends and relatives. I simply would like to share with you the tremendous blessings that I am experiencing right now even after leaving the Adventist church.

I pray that God will continue to inspire you to worship Him and continuously grow in knowledge of Him. God’s grace can see us through. His grace can inspire us to love Him more and glorify Him more in our daily lives.

May God’s grace be felt and seen in our lives.

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  • Willy Quiambao

    Arnold,

    I read the letter you wrote to your Adventist relatives back home after what you considered as a disastrous discussion with them. I am glad to read that you still adhere to the health principles and other Biblical doctrines you learned from the Adventist Church . That only shows that when a former Adventist abandon the church for one reason or another, in their subconscious minds, they still believe the truths preached by the Adventist Church as written in the Bible, although you maintain that these teachings are not important for salvation. My question is this: Now that you are out of the SDA church, what do you believe abou the following:

    1. State of the Dead
    2. The Millenium
    3. Baptism by Immersion
    4. The Law of God
    5. Christian Behavior

    I just want to gauge your current beliefs on these subjects now that you are out of the SDA church. Now, if what your belief on these 5 tenets are the same as that of the SDA church, then you are still very much an Adventist in mind and heart, my friend.

    Unlike you, I was not born an Adventist. I was born a member of the Iglesia ni Cristo (founded by Manalo). But at the age of 12, I started studying with different protestant churches. I became disillusioned with the INC because they did not (still don’t) read the Bible. I wanted to read the Bible on my own and prove to myself what these pastors/ministers were reading were in the Bible–just like the Bereans who you always mention in your articles. I studied with non-denominational, Methodist, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witnessess etc. The last church I studied with and became a member of was the Mormon church. In fact, I became a Sunday school teacher of this church. But just like the Bereans, I found the Mormon church wanting in Biblical teachings.

    The church that I really found to have most of the truths during my search is the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Let me also tell you that I just did not accept this church without a fight. I studied and investigaged all its doctrines, and also stuff that are actually against the SDA church like the book of Walter Rea, Dale Ratslaff, Desmond Ford and other former Adventist Pastors who left the church. I am very much aware of the myriad of accusations against Ellen G. White as well. At the end of the day though, my faith in this church never changed. No matter what angle I looked at it, it still contains most of the Biblical truths among the Protestant churches in existence today.

    I have also asked SDA evangelists, theologians and learned pastors about the SDA doctrine on the 10 commandments and the Sabbath. I have read different SDA books on these two subjects as well. None of them gave the slightest hint that the church teaches we will be saved by obeying the 10 commandments and observing the Sabbath. On the contrary, the church has been teaching salvation by grace trough faith. The caveat though is when you are already saved, you now have the strenght to obey the Law of God. In other words, you obey the Law of God not because you want to be saved but because you are already save. Jesus himself said that if we love him, we must keep his commandments.

    As far as the Sabbath is concerned, why do you complain when a group of people want to worship God every day and 24 hours a day on the 7th day that God blessed and hallowed? On the contrary, You shold be happy for them, right?

    It’s really amazing when you call Sabbath Worship legalism. If I ask you if it’s bad to murder, commit adultery, disrespect parents, use the name of the Lord God in vain, worship idols, etc., I am sure you will readily admit that these are all sins because they are written in the Bible. You don’t call it legalism when they talk about these sins, but if someone mentions the Sabbath, you would immediately say it’s legalism and will come up with common excuses like: “Sabbath is no longer bindng for Christians”, “Christ nailed the Sabbath on the cross” etc. Isn’t that funny? James is so clear when he wrote in James 2:10-11 that “whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty at breaking all of it”. This verse is avoided like a plague by those people who want to prove that the Decalogue (10 Commandments) are no longer valid. What you will see them use are misunderstood verses of Paul like Colossians 2:14-16 and other Paulinian verses but ignore Jesus statements like the one in Matthew 5:18 where he says “until heaven and earth disappears, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of pen, will by an means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”. Obviously, the Law still stands as we still se the heavens above us and earth beneath us.

    If you want to continue discussing this huge and controversial subject, we can do so.

    May the Lord let you see the light again.

    Willy Q

  • arnoldgamboa

    Hi Willy

    Thanks for visiting my website.

    Here’re my answers to your question regarding my beliefs in the 5 distictives of the Adventist church:

    > 1. State of the Dead
    Immortality of the Soul

    > 2. The Millenium
    PostMil — still very Adventist.

    > 3. Baptism by Immersion
    Baptism by immersion — but it is not equal to baptism of the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the HS saves, but baptism by immersion is just a way to show obedience to Jesus, not in anyway to save. A lot of people are saved but unbaptised.

    > 4. The Law of God
    LOVE. The Big 10 is given to the Jews and the Sabbath seats at the very center of it as its sign. In the New Testament, The law of God is LOVE and the seal is the Holy Spirit.

    > 5. Christian Behavior
    Christians are not perfect, only forgiven. Christian behaviour changes as the Holy Spirit changes the Christian.

    I am glad that you found Jesus within the Adventist church. We may have come into different conclusions, but I’m sure if both of us regard Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are brothers in Christ.

    Legalism is subjective to a person. Often times, when I am asked about my view of Adventism as a church, I always say that doctrinally speaking, they are orthodox with some distinctive doctrines. But as far as the individual member’s spiritual experience is concerned, they tend to be legalistic.

    You cannot deny the fact that most Adventists believe that Sunday is the Mark of the Beast and Sabbath is the Seal of God — both of which are not found in the Bible. This belief cannot make one church a cult, but when an individual member practiced it, it becomes legalistic. Say, they would become dependent on observing the Sabbath as far as salvation is concerned — because its the “seal of God” — and see other believers as “lost” only because they are not worshiping on the “Sabbath” — therefore worshiping the beast.

    I have nothing against one worshipping ON THE sabbath, as you may have thought I am. What I am against is one worshipping THE sabbath. Unfortunately, this is exactly what most Adventists do. I should know — I grew up with it, I studied on an Adventist institution, and most of the people I know are Adventists. Basically, Adventism is flowing in my blood stream — in fact, until now.

    As with Matt. 5, I made a post about it previously. It may help you understand my position on this matter.
    http://arnoldgamboa.com/2005/01/jesus-came-to-fulfill-the-law/

    With regards to the discussion on Paulinian statements on the law, James 2 and the 10 Commandments, you mentioned that you studied Dale Ratzlaff’s works. If you have read his book “Sabbath In Christ”, I can refer you to it. I completely support Pastor RAtzlaff’s position on the issues mentioned.

    I will definitely appreciate and welcome future correspondence with you. God bless you and your family.

    Arnold

  • Willy Quiambao

    Arnold,

    Like I promised, I am answering your reply on 6th June 05. First of all, I am really glad to know that you still adhere to the Biblical truth on the Millenium as preached by the SDA church. At the same time, I am extremely sad that you now believe what the Catholics church and most Protestant churches do on unscriptural teaching of the immortality of the soul. On the other 3 tenets, I can agree with you on all of them with some nuances in interpretations.

    Now here are my comments on what you said in your post before I make comments on your article on Matthew Chapter 5. You said you “have nothing against one worshipping ON THE sabbath, as you may have thought I am. What I am against is one worshipping THE sabbath. Unfortunately, this is exactly what most Adventists do”. If there are some Adventists who “worship the Sabbath”, then that does not make the whole church false. If these members want to place such an importance on the Sabbath, let them do so. As long as that’s not what the church teaches, it’s okay. In my 4 years of membership in the SDA church, I have seen both kinds of member. I really don’t care as long as these members are faithful followers of Christ and are morally upright. That’s good enough for me. Isn’t that good enough for you?

    Even in the first century church, members were not all unified in their beliefs at first. A good example is the incident in Acts 15, where some Jewish members of the church started telling new Gentile converts in Antioch that in order to be saved, they must follow the law of Moses on circumcision. It caused so much uproar that they had to consult the leaders in Jerusalem to resolve the issue. Don’t you think the same thing can happen in a 15 million member church like the SDA? You need to understand that members of the church have different levels of understanding about the Gospel. Not because some are very “fanatic or zealous about the Sabbath, the church as a whole is wrong. I would advise you to re-read Ellen G. White’s writings like the Steps to Christ.

    You reject what you call unique doctrines of the SDA church on the Mark of the Beast and Seal of God, yet you now believe the unscriptural teachings on the immortality of the soul, once saved always saved fallacy, and Calvinism’s 5 points with the acronym TULIP. If you can convincingly explain to me the TULIP points which are total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints using Biblical verses, then I will reassess my beliefs. But I guarantee you for every verse you will cite, I have 2 to 3 verses that will convincintly dispute them.

    Take for instance, the doctrine of once saved always saved that you believe should be acknowledged by SDA church and all churches. I can prove to you by citing myriad of Biblical verses that this doctrine is completely wrong and dangerous. You can search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will never find this doctrine taught by the patriarchs, prophets, Jesus and the apostles. There are few misunderstood verses that the likes of John Calvin , Billy Graham etc. have spun and created a whole doctrine out of, but their interpretations are obviously flawed. This fallacious doctrine gives men the license to wallow in immorality without feeling guilty as they firmly believe whatever crimes, violence, and immoral things they do, they will still be saved comes the second coming. Think about this, my friend, and tell me what’s wrong with this picture. What happened to you, my friend, is you went back to the this false gospel Paul warned the Galatians about as written in Galatians 1:8-9. after growing up in the truth. This is clearly seen by what you now believe on the immortality of soul and Calvin’s false teachings. But I digress as this a whole totally different subject.

    Now for my answer to what you wrote on Matthew 5: 17 which states:

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill” (KJV)

    Now for the correct interpretation of the verse. If you read the contexts of this chapter, it is quite evident from the opening words of this text that Christ was reading the minds of his critics who were accusing Him of doing away with the law. Instead of abolishing it, He was actually doing the opposite. The word “fulfill” means literally “to fill; to make full.” The same word is used in Matthew 3:15 where Jesus spoke of his own baptism. “Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Now, if we substitute “to abolish or bring to an end” for “fulfill” like you think the meaning of fulfill is, it does not make sense, right?

    There I nothing in the word that signifies “to bring to an end to” or “abolish.”. The law and the prophets included not just the Ten Commandments, but the Old Testament writings as well. Christ fulfilled these Scriptures, just as he fulfilled all righteousness at his baptism, by obedience to them. Paul used the same word in Colossians 1:25: “Where I am made a minister…to fulfill the word of God.” This does not mean to bring the word of God to an end, but rather to fully carry it out in obedience.

    Another example is Romans 8:4, the sense is clearly revealed by the same word used in this sentence: “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Even those who seek to abolish the law must admit the righteousness of those who walk after the Spirit is not “fulfilled” by being abolished. Yet this is the same word used in Matthew 5:17 to “fulfill” the law.

    Finally, Paul gives us a classic example of the word “fulfill” in Galatians 6:2: “Bear ye one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.” Not one Christian believes that the law of Christ has been abolished. Neither should any Christian feel that the “law and the prophets” have been abolished. Romans 13:8-10 tells how to fulfill the law of the Ten Commandments by obedience to it: Here is what is says:

    “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law”

    As far as your contention that the “ Sabbath law is nonexistence before Mt. Sinai”, let me refer you to an incident in Exodus before the Israelites reached Mt. Sinai. Let’s read what it says in Exodus 16:4:

    Exodus 16: 4 “Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no”.

    In the following verses after the above, God told the Israelites that they could gather manna from Sunday to Friday, but not on the 7th day(Sabbath). But some stubborn Israelites still went out on the Sabbath, and as a result this what God told them:

    Exodus 16: 28 “And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws”.

    Now, the big question is: what laws and commandments was God talking about here? Remember, God uttered these words about two weeks before He gave the 10 Commandments to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
    The fact is the Israelites and the patriarchs already knew about God’s law and his will before Mt. Sinai. It’s just that they were not written in stone or books. Here is another verse in Genesis that proves without a shadow of a doubt that God’s commandments, laws and statutes were already known by the patriarchs.

    Genesis 26: 5 “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

    In the verse above, God was telling us that Abraham obeyed his voice, and kept his charge, his commandments, his statutes, and his laws. What commandments and laws? If you can show me a verse in the Bible where God gave Abraham in detail his commandments and laws, I will change my position.

    One more thing, not because there is nothing written in Genesis about God giving his commandments and laws to Adam and Eve, and the patriarchs does not mean the law was nonexistent. Let me give you some examples. Nothing is written in Genesis about God telling Cain that murder was a sin, yet it clearly says in Genesis 4:10-14 that murder is a sin and that Cain was punished by God for his sin. Nothing is written in Genesis that God told the first people that committing adultery is a sin, yet Joseph knew it was a sin against God when the wife of Potiphar tried to seduce him as written in Genesis 39:8-10. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God because of their exceeding wickedness. My point here is not because you don’t read it in the Bible does not mean it is not there. As you can see from the above examples, the Law was obviously there before they were given to Moses on Mt .Sinai, and this included the Sabbath.

    Lastly, your statement that the Sabbath law applies to a certain group of people to a certain time”. Does not hold water Biblically. On the contrary, Jesus states in Mark 2;27 The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Please notice Jesus said “man” or “mankind” and not “Jews” or “Israelites”. You will never find the words “Sabbath of the Jews” in the Bible, my friend. The Sabbath is always called: “The Sabbath of the Lord” and “God’s Holy Day.” This holy day is universal, and was not only made for a certain group of people. In fact, in the New Heavens and the New Earth, all the saved will worship God on Sabbath forever as can be read in Isaiah 66:22-23.

    “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”

    The above prophetic declaration was uttered by the Almighty himself, and is therefore irrefutable.

    MY FINAL QUESTION IS: DOES THIS MAKE GOD THE ALMIGHTY LEGALISTIC? YOU BE THE JUDGE. MAY GOD BRING YOU AND ALL YOUR READERS TO THE TRUTH. THIS IS MY PRAYER.

    Willy Q

  • Andy

    hello i am 18 yrs old and a seventh day adventist but i dont believe that it is the seventh day adventist denomination that will be saved but the people in it that hold the testimony of Jesus and keep holy his commandments.let me give you a brief story on how i became an adventis hopefuly im not lying to you by telling you it will be brief haha.Well i was born and raised in the adventist church my mother being a adventist and my father being a catholic…i never really payed any attention to what they had to say and i hated it bcuz the worship was awful people seemed really sad all the time the messages seemed really boring.so i started going to a pentecostal church and i would always see people really happy clapping their hands and dancing i thought man this is what christianity is so i would go up to the altar all the time and have the pastors lay their hands on me.I made alot of friends there and most of my friends are all pentecostal……after a while i began to notice that all the sermons were kind of the same every week..i wanted more i wanted to go deeper in who christ was.i got really sick and stoped eating i experienced a huge depression perhaps i was hungry for God and i wasnt getting fed right. i started weighing about 90 pounds when before i weighed 165.I would wonder why i kept going on theese spiritual highs and then would come down again i noticed that all my friends that were saved were falling away bcuz they wouldnt get more out of the sermons.so then one day i passed out and was rushed to the hospital then i was sent to a mental institution…bcuz i would not put down the bible they assumed that my religous fanaticsm was the reason why i got how i got.My heart would tug at me day and night i would have feelings ofincompleteness.guilt and sorrow filled my life i would have shocking nightmares every nite about the world ending.i wouldnt put down the bible in the hospital so i kept reading and reading searching for why i felt something so terribly wrong with me and with the world i felt like there was something that i needed to do but i diidnt know how to do it or what it is i needed to do.anywho one nite i was wondering why i fainted how why God had me hear ect then i dropped the bible and the book it fall on was daniel 8 i began to read how he recieved visions from God and how he fainted his story seemed so similiar to mine it was like scriptures being fullfiled i had fainted but God was literally touching me and encouraging me to get up!after i got out of the hospital i prayed and asked to give me some kind of sign on what he wanted me to do.the next day my mom invited me to go to church with her but i told her no bcuz the sda churches dont have christ inside their hearts just in their heads…she insisted and told me that tehy had a new pastor and that he was really good.so i went and you’ll never belive what the pastor was talking about….they were having a conference of daniel and the day i happend to go on was the day they studied chapter 8 .i coudnt belive it.the pastor was full of energy and love and even told the church that they needed to wake up move stop thinking your somehow better than all the other churches bcuz you keep the ten commandments bcuz even thougn you do your still missing the point in why you do.the pastor began talking about the 3 angels message and i knew that was my reason for being on this earth.to spread the word. i am now taking bible studies and i am studying everything i can get my hands on i am aware that alot of people call ellen g white a liar and i am aware of walter rea but it doesnt discourage me it only strenghthens me.remember the sorty about jesus in mathew 12:22-37? jesus healed a man they accused him of blasphemy and being demon possesed.But jesus told them any kingdom at war with itself is doomed and if satan is casting out satan is fighting agaainst himself it goes on to say that if i am casting out demons with the spirit of God then the kingdom of God has arrived among you. then he explains that all blasphemy can be forgiven except for the blasphemy against the holy spirit. but what is blasphemy against the holy spirit? well if you read the old version in luke 11 it saids finger of God instead of holy spirit.So the holy spirit of God is another way of saying the finger of God.And was it not the finger of God the holy spirit that wrote the ten comandments?and if you say the seal of God is the holy spirit then doesnt the holy spirit guide us by the ten comandments? psalm 119 my words remain forever.Blasphemy against the holy spirit is when you know about the ten comandments are true and yet you preach against it purposely.preaching that sunday is the day of the lord when you know its not.preaching its ok to kill when you no its not ect.however i dont think this applies to you i think you are confused and God see’s that.it doesnt apply to pastors that are misunderstood.The people that made the new living translation bible substituted power of God for finger of God when in matthew holy spirit is still there.and how can you not belive that sunday is the beast?or about what the spirit of prophecy has to say its so clear in daniel 7:25 he will change Gods laws oppress his people ect.how can you sit there and tell me that were wrong when the catholic church changed the sabbath to sunday and persecuted everyone that kept the sabbath at the exact same time prochecy predicted.how can you sit there and tell me were wrong when noone was allowed to have a bible but the priest bcuz a man asked why do we keep the sunday now and not the seventh day when a priest replied with the famous line-bcuz jesus rose again on sunday morning- thats right it was a priest that came up with that so im afraid that christians that are saying this is not from god but from the papacy.and even if you want to use his death learn this he still rested on the sabbath when he died!i just dont understand after seeing so much prochecy taking place how can you say we are a false religon?just bcuz maybe your church was like how mine was.noone realy being filled with the spirit.but you know what one time i went to an sda church in riverside and boy oh boy was it filled with the spirit of God people were happy and nice and very energetic and always talked about How much god loves us.our church is probably the most accurate church when it comes to prophecy.and your statement about foods not being unclean.in timothy it saids that there would be false teachers and demon possed teachers would say it is wrong to eat certain foods.but God created those foods to be eaten with thanksgiving.since everything God created is good we should not reject any of it.the foods that god created and intended us to eat in the first place were fruits vegatables grains ect every seed bearing plant it saids in genesis.but then he gave noah the right to eat meat.except for anything unclean.So the food that paul was talking about if he said everything God created is clean.well The food that god created isnt unclean but God did not create meat to be eaten he only gave us the right.but now days nutritionist are telling us that vegaterian diets are bad for you mcdonalds is telling us we need a big hamburger! and all the protein we can get.The world is basically telling us that fruits vegatables and grains arent good enough. the world is basically telling us its wrong to eat theese foods.in issaih 66 it saids that those feasting on swines flesh mice and other detestable meats will come to a terrible end. and issaih is basically written about the end times.eew mice yes in china alot of people eat mice.anyways im just curious why youre claiming the adventist church to be wrong.frankly i dont care if you ever set foot into the sda denomination but i do care about you setting your foot inside christ and doing his will by listening to the holy spirit(the finger Of God)

  • Andy

    im sorry i accidentaly put daniel 8 when i meant daniel 10

  • http://arnoldgamboa.com Arnold

    Hi Andy,

    Thank you for visiting my site. I appreciate your input.

    Let me be very candid with my comments based on the story that you just told me. I should say that I sincerely believe we are NOT saved by the doctrinal positions we take, but by the Savior who freely forgives. It’s not WHAT we know, but WHO we know.

    I think that the reason why you can’t find assurance while in that pentecostal church and got bored with their sermons is that what you’re doing is trying to KNOW MORE and not necessarily trying to establish a deep, close relationship with Jesus. That’s why you get bored with them. And now that you’re enjoying the doctrines of the Adventist church, I’m afraid that if you just continue your focus on peculiarity of one groups teachings, you’ll end up hopping to another denomination when you get bored again with their teaching after knowing and mastering everything that they teach.

    Of course, I may be wrong in my assumptions — I don’t know you enough, but that’s what I get from your email. But let me tell you what can end this emptiness that you may be feeling. A relationship with Jesus Christ. Have a relationship with him — as close as you can — not just a “relationship” that makes you hear his name in your Sabbath School or preachings in the Divine worship. A relationship that actually knowing what he wants in your life and knowing his very character.

    Never mind whether the “prophecies” actually proves that a denomination is true or not — because I can tell you, the debate is still going on. If you have heard of Dr. Desmond Ford, an Adventist theologian, he has presented in the ’80s a paper that disproves the Adventist pioneer’s claims on prophetic explanations, the same explanations that you’ve been hearing right now. The point is, these things are nothing compared to a close, vibrant relationship with God. Only Jesus can satisfy your soul’s vacuum. Love him. Get closer to him.

    God bless you.

  • Andy

    im sorry but you realy misunderstood me. i diddnt find jesus inside the church or in my sabbath school lessons i found him in a hospital first.i learned that in the blackest of times when you lose evrything hes there for you and your never alone.I love Jesus so whats wrong with me trying to study the word he gave to save us.its not the bible that saves us but its whats inside, the story.its not just oh jesus died on the cross for me and thats it the story ended.You have to pick up your cross and follow Jesus.but i totaly agree with you…alot of people are trying to know more instead of trying to know Jesus but im not one of them.I love my God! he rescued me from death in that hospital the least i can do is share it with other people.but no sacrifices are good enough for him.All he wants in return is love.but if we love him shouldnt we obey his comandments wich are love the lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbhor this is all that the ten comandments is about.and your statement about me not being complete….of course im not complete noone is truly happy bcuz were not in heaven yet.We still live here in our earthly bodies.we groan with a feeling of oppresion despretely wanting to live in our new ones.thats somewhere in the bible.adventism may seem like its all about good works to get into heaven but it realy isnt.Its bcuz we love Jesus that we have no prblem in obeying his comandments.and yes the sabbath is in our hearts but if God declared it holy and said that his comandments last forever why would he take the blessings we recieve on that day away? why would he make it less of a holy day?commandments arent a bunch of rules when you realy look at it..its God showing us freedom and a way out of the dark prison that we live in.Of course we can obey the comandments and still not be saved if we dont understand the true purpose of it.im just curious do you still go to church if you do wich one?

  • Andy

    im not studying the bible for my own personal selfish reasons to help feel safe and secure……..its bcuz i am so grateful that God saved me from death that i am eager to help further his kingdom

  • http://arnoldgamboa.com Arnold

    Hi Andy,

    I’m glad to hear you’re already enjoying a relationship with Jesus Christ. Let me ask you, though. If a person does not believe the way Adventists believe and rejects her teachings, yet, he has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior and is having a vibrant relationship with Him, do you think he can still be saved?

    With your other question, I am a believer of Jesus Christ a.k.a Christian, but do not have denominational affiliation. I fellowship with fellow-believers in a group called Grace Place every Sunday. If that’s what you call “church going”, I think I still go to church.

    God bless.

    Arnold

  • Andy

    i dont believe that you have to be an adventist to get saved…and thats not what we teach on the contrary we believe with scriptual evidence that there will be alot of people from babylon that will get saved….so i believe that there are many people from various denominations that have jesus in their hearts.weather they be pentecostals,baptist,adventist,or even catholics….some of theese people truly do love jesus.so yes it is possible for someone to be saved.but the sabbath is not an adventist teaching that is being rejected it is a biblical teaching….in mathew 7:21 saids not all people that sound religous are godly they may refer to me as lord but they still wont enter the kingdom of heaven only those that obey my father and do his will will enter in the last days many will say lord lord we prophesised and cast out demons inn your name and performed miracles in your name.but i will reply get away form me you who break Gods laws…..so i dont know exactly who will go to heaven only God knows bcuz he is the Judge i am noone to say that so an so will or will not go to heaven bcuz he doesnt obey or bcuz he does keep the sabbath holy.God knows where their heart is and weather they be confused or might have never known i believe God accepts them.i think its cool that you arent affiliated with any denominations…though i dont really consider the adventist another denomination maybe bcuz they follow what the bible has to say rather than making up their own point of views …but let me ask you something……if church and state were united and a sunday law were to be enforced what would you think then? would you see things differently?

  • Andy

    noone can save you but jesus……and jesus is more than a person he is the way the truth and the life…..i dont know why but the holy spirit wanted me to tell you this.

  • http://artifact888yahoo.com art

    i am a seventh day adventist, and i enjoy making friends with sunday keepers. let us prevent overgeneralization in every comment that we will have. i make friends with them but i do not compromise the truth that i have fully understood from the Bible alone. You know it, that Saturday is the Sabbath. It is a commandment of God. Instead of keeping Sunday, make friends with the people, never condemn but draw them neaere to Christ thru obedience. You will be judged by God according to the ;light that you have received. See you in the ressurection morning…

  • jun

    Friend, Christianity is not a cheap religion…..

    Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

    If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross
    and follow me” (Mt 16: 24).

    Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” 1 john 5:1-3

    My message to all: Stop reading NON SENSE MAN-MADE commentaries( Walter Rea, Dale Ratslaff, Desmond Ford).

    Read the Bible for yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.

    The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.John 6:63

    “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 john 2:3-6

    Christ invite us to walk even as he walked.As jesus keep God’s commanments (including the seventh day sabbath) as he was his custom(luke 4:16).We ought to follow him because we love him.”I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.” pslams 40:8

    >>Don’t be misled the ten commandments is the law of love.The first four commandments is love to God and the last six is the love to man.

    ****Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deut 6:4,5
    **** but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.Lev 19:18

    There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.Prov. 14:12.

    Friend may I comment to the question you’ve raised(If a person does not believe the way Adventists believe and rejects her teachings, yet, he has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior and is having a vibrant relationship with Him, do you think he can still be saved?

    i would like to answer that question by assumption.Now let me equate that adventist teaching is the truth,if we assume adventist teachings is the one that bears the truth and if we agree that jesus christ is the truth, are we not responsible for neglecting the truth just only because it was the adventist who teach the truth?Regardless of the name of the denomination we must follow the truth because truth is absolute.there are no many truth.If adventist is the one that teaches the truth, Friend i’ll tell you we are responsible to follow the truth or not.

    Friend accepting jesus our Lord and Saviour and having a vibrant relationship with him depends upon our responsible in following him.

    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

    “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.” John 8:31

    Saving is God’s part, abiding and following is our part. Salvation is a relationship. It is a two way proccess.Do your part and God will do his own.

    “Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceed out of the mouth of God”

    Viva Sola Scriptura!!!

    May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you.

  • Al Hopkins

    Well Arnold I see you have a strong faith in Jesus amen. I just want to say that I noticed your dedication to severing the Lord will go a long way. I t is very important to realize that it is our faith that serves us well. Yes we can still worship the sabbath and all the commandments, but what does it mean if we have no faith? I think it would serve us all well to study Romans it discusses our relationship with Jesus. Will there be a remnant sure who will it be, those that are faithful and trust in Jesus Christ and not the doctrines/traditions of man, AMEN-Arnold. This is just and opinion and mine only.

  • http://harrypierce123.livejournal.com/2009/11/ bsgod72

    Hey, I love your site. It seems most people don’t really bother writing articles that lack substance nowadays.